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	<title>Comments on: Gentleness</title>
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	<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/</link>
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		<title>By: Wet Fish &#171; Reclaiming Manhood</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Wet Fish &#171; Reclaiming Manhood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-91</guid>
		<description>[...] On the other side, I wonder, if gentleness is really a manly virtue, whether the bone-crunching grip of some men shows a lack of control, and is also a kind of failure? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On the other side, I wonder, if gentleness is really a manly virtue, whether the bone-crunching grip of some men shows a lack of control, and is also a kind of failure? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Meredith</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Thank you guys for doing this.  I don&#039;t have much to add at the moment, but I very much enjoyed reading and look forward to more.

-Merry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you guys for doing this.  I don&#8217;t have much to add at the moment, but I very much enjoyed reading and look forward to more.</p>
<p>-Merry</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Adams</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 05:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>I did actually poke through the Greek NT a bit before writing this... I found about three different words that got translated as &quot;gentleness&quot; (and none too consistently between versions, as I recall).  And all of &#039;em meant pretty much what you said.

So I said to myself, &quot;That isn&#039;t what I&#039;m talking about.&quot; :)  Which is why I left the Greek wholly out of it.  I stuck with the term &quot;gentleness&quot; because I wasn&#039;t dealing with anything as broad as &quot;self-control.&quot;  (Modesty is also a sort of self-control, as are temperance, fasting, slowness-to-anger, and a host of other things.)  Also, although &quot;gentleness&quot; isn&#039;t a completely precise term, I was bouncing off of Dr. Hake&#039;s definition, and gainsaying Hake is always a dodgy proposition at best.

Furthermore, plain ol&#039; self-control doesn&#039;t really have anything peculiarly masculine about it, which is (sort of) what this particuar blog is interested in.  But we&#039;ll probably get to self-control anyway....

Speaking of which: I&#039;m really actually going to stop defending myself against any and all comments.  You people fight this out amongst yourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did actually poke through the Greek NT a bit before writing this&#8230; I found about three different words that got translated as &#8220;gentleness&#8221; (and none too consistently between versions, as I recall).  And all of &#8216;em meant pretty much what you said.</p>
<p>So I said to myself, &#8220;That isn&#8217;t what I&#8217;m talking about.&#8221; <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Which is why I left the Greek wholly out of it.  I stuck with the term &#8220;gentleness&#8221; because I wasn&#8217;t dealing with anything as broad as &#8220;self-control.&#8221;  (Modesty is also a sort of self-control, as are temperance, fasting, slowness-to-anger, and a host of other things.)  Also, although &#8220;gentleness&#8221; isn&#8217;t a completely precise term, I was bouncing off of Dr. Hake&#8217;s definition, and gainsaying Hake is always a dodgy proposition at best.</p>
<p>Furthermore, plain ol&#8217; self-control doesn&#8217;t really have anything peculiarly masculine about it, which is (sort of) what this particuar blog is interested in.  But we&#8217;ll probably get to self-control anyway&#8230;.</p>
<p>Speaking of which: I&#8217;m really actually going to stop defending myself against any and all comments.  You people fight this out amongst yourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Magnus</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Magnus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 04:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Ok, great post there.  It even inspired me to pull out the Greek and look up gentleness there to see what the non-latin roots are.  It turns out every time the word comes up in the NT it means the same thing:
1) mildness of disposition, gentleness of spirit, meekness 

So I said to myself, he said himself that isn&#039;t what he is talking about.  Maybe one of the other fruits of the spirit works better here.  I turn to Galatians and look.  Bingo, there&#039;s something called self-control here!  But what does it really mean?  After all, Ben isn&#039;t talking about anger issues here.  The word is &#039;engrateia&#039;.  It means &quot;self control&quot;.  Quite helpful.  So I check and find that it comes from the more general &#039;engrates&#039;, which means:
1) strong, robust 
2) having power over, possessed of (a thing) 
3) mastering, controlling, curbing, restraining controlling one&#039;s self, temperate, continent 

en means &quot;in&quot;, &quot;with&quot; (&amp; a bunch of other stuff);  kratos means force, strength, power, might, dominion

So Ben.. I hate to be picky, but I think you really ought to retitle this entry and try for gentleness again at some other time.. not that mildness of disposition doesn&#039;t have a lot to do with what you wrote about, and neither that it is something we men don&#039;t need to practice, but rather that self-control is something we really need and this would really help us in that area :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, great post there.  It even inspired me to pull out the Greek and look up gentleness there to see what the non-latin roots are.  It turns out every time the word comes up in the NT it means the same thing:<br />
1) mildness of disposition, gentleness of spirit, meekness </p>
<p>So I said to myself, he said himself that isn&#8217;t what he is talking about.  Maybe one of the other fruits of the spirit works better here.  I turn to Galatians and look.  Bingo, there&#8217;s something called self-control here!  But what does it really mean?  After all, Ben isn&#8217;t talking about anger issues here.  The word is &#8216;engrateia&#8217;.  It means &#8220;self control&#8221;.  Quite helpful.  So I check and find that it comes from the more general &#8216;engrates&#8217;, which means:<br />
1) strong, robust<br />
2) having power over, possessed of (a thing)<br />
3) mastering, controlling, curbing, restraining controlling one&#8217;s self, temperate, continent </p>
<p>en means &#8220;in&#8221;, &#8220;with&#8221; (&amp; a bunch of other stuff);  kratos means force, strength, power, might, dominion</p>
<p>So Ben.. I hate to be picky, but I think you really ought to retitle this entry and try for gentleness again at some other time.. not that mildness of disposition doesn&#8217;t have a lot to do with what you wrote about, and neither that it is something we men don&#8217;t need to practice, but rather that self-control is something we really need and this would really help us in that area <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Adams</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>In that paragraph, yes, I was referring to physical strength: women are rarely tempted to abuse their strength to the same degree that men are (or to the degree they are tempted to abuse their own beauty).  They do have other things they excel at, and these may certainly be temptations.

I suppose I really did mean &quot;showing love&quot; more than &quot;loving&quot;: certainly women struggle with being loving.  But the practice of showing love towards those they love comes more easily to them, I think (at least in many scenarios), than it does to men.  Husbands don&#039;t feel &quot;unloved&quot; nearly as often as wives do, unless my information is very wrong.  (They may feel snubbed or held in contempt by their wife-of-the-rapier-tongue, which might actually be &lt;em&gt;worse &lt;/em&gt;than feeling unloved--but they&#039;re never in doubt about her love.)

Loving may not come &quot;naturally&quot; to women, but I think that &lt;em&gt;showing&lt;/em&gt; love does--or at least, more naturally than it does to men.  It&#039;s not that we don&#039;t &lt;em&gt;want &lt;/em&gt;to; we&#039;re just not very &lt;em&gt;good &lt;/em&gt;at it.  [I&#039;m pulling a lot of this out of the book &quot;Love and Respect,&quot; by Emmerson Eggerich.  I recommend it.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.loveandrespect.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.loveandrespect.com&lt;/a&gt;]

And, yes, there are different ways of showing love (the &quot;love languages&quot;). I didn&#039;t want to muddy the issue by dragging those in, and I still don&#039;t. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that paragraph, yes, I was referring to physical strength: women are rarely tempted to abuse their strength to the same degree that men are (or to the degree they are tempted to abuse their own beauty).  They do have other things they excel at, and these may certainly be temptations.</p>
<p>I suppose I really did mean &#8220;showing love&#8221; more than &#8220;loving&#8221;: certainly women struggle with being loving.  But the practice of showing love towards those they love comes more easily to them, I think (at least in many scenarios), than it does to men.  Husbands don&#8217;t feel &#8220;unloved&#8221; nearly as often as wives do, unless my information is very wrong.  (They may feel snubbed or held in contempt by their wife-of-the-rapier-tongue, which might actually be <em>worse </em>than feeling unloved&#8211;but they&#8217;re never in doubt about her love.)</p>
<p>Loving may not come &#8220;naturally&#8221; to women, but I think that <em>showing</em> love does&#8211;or at least, more naturally than it does to men.  It&#8217;s not that we don&#8217;t <em>want </em>to; we&#8217;re just not very <em>good </em>at it.  [I'm pulling a lot of this out of the book "Love and Respect," by Emmerson Eggerich.  I recommend it.  <a href="http://www.loveandrespect.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.loveandrespect.com</a>]</p>
<p>And, yes, there are different ways of showing love (the &#8220;love languages&#8221;). I didn&#8217;t want to muddy the issue by dragging those in, and I still don&#8217;t. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lady Ancilla</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Ancilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-23</guid>
		<description>I loved your example from Smallville.  However, I would like you to more fully explain one of your statements,  &quot;Women have very little difficulty in loving and in showing love.  I suspect they have similarly little difficulty in using wisely and moderately whatever strength they have.&quot;  I can&#039;t speak for all womankind, but I think we are generally very good at service loves.  I can work for, and do things for someone I really don&#039;t like with no great spiritual struggle, but properly and fully loving someone is much more than that and I find it extremely difficult.   How exactly did you mean love and loving in that phrase?  Also as regards to strength, do you mean merely physical strength?  Because your suspicion may be correct as to physical strength, I don&#039;t know for sure, but when it comes to uses words as weapons, and finding other people&#039;s weak points and exploiting them, girls are generally experts and have to work hard to resist the temptation to pull down others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved your example from Smallville.  However, I would like you to more fully explain one of your statements,  &#8220;Women have very little difficulty in loving and in showing love.  I suspect they have similarly little difficulty in using wisely and moderately whatever strength they have.&#8221;  I can&#8217;t speak for all womankind, but I think we are generally very good at service loves.  I can work for, and do things for someone I really don&#8217;t like with no great spiritual struggle, but properly and fully loving someone is much more than that and I find it extremely difficult.   How exactly did you mean love and loving in that phrase?  Also as regards to strength, do you mean merely physical strength?  Because your suspicion may be correct as to physical strength, I don&#8217;t know for sure, but when it comes to uses words as weapons, and finding other people&#8217;s weak points and exploiting them, girls are generally experts and have to work hard to resist the temptation to pull down others.</p>
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		<title>By: Thacia Olive</title>
		<link>http://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Thacia Olive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://reclaimingmanhood.wordpress.com/2006/07/30/gentleness/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Excellent treatment.

There is perhaps nothing more impressive to a woman than perfect strength under perfect control--a man who is strong through discipline and work, physically and spiritually, and a man who is self-controlled and gentle, who uses his strength for creation and redemption and not for destruction.  Right now in our culture many men swing to one extreme or the other--strong in a selfish, violent, destructive sense, or weak and effeminate in an effort to be sensitive.  True gentleness avoids both extremes and captures what true manhood really means.

It is good for a man to be strong enough to kill you, yet use that strength to protect you.  And it is good for a woman to be strong enough to lead, yet use that strength to support the leadership of another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent treatment.</p>
<p>There is perhaps nothing more impressive to a woman than perfect strength under perfect control&#8211;a man who is strong through discipline and work, physically and spiritually, and a man who is self-controlled and gentle, who uses his strength for creation and redemption and not for destruction.  Right now in our culture many men swing to one extreme or the other&#8211;strong in a selfish, violent, destructive sense, or weak and effeminate in an effort to be sensitive.  True gentleness avoids both extremes and captures what true manhood really means.</p>
<p>It is good for a man to be strong enough to kill you, yet use that strength to protect you.  And it is good for a woman to be strong enough to lead, yet use that strength to support the leadership of another.</p>
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